Forgot to change it in the prediction league Oh well a bad day all round We could be in our usual position where we slip back into bottom 6 before Xmas by the look of it The table is really opening up now after it being so tight at the start Not beating boro is our worst result of the season so far
Warburton could be on thin ice in a month or so literally Fulham will tear our defence apart of what we have left of a defence in the next game Manager has run out of ideas in my opinion Why season after season do we end up in the same situation no matter what players or manager we have
The wheels have fallen off now It’s how we put them back on is what’s important Warburton is openly admitting we’re stuggling passing the ball out from the back,so why are we still doing it The defence and individual errors are destroying our confidence and we will get dragged in to a relegation fight if we’re not careful It’s sad to see us back to square one again,but that’s what being a QPR fan is about
Well this was the game we we reasserted ourselves and showed we could perform - except we did not! Both teams played a back 5 when off the ball and a back 3 when on it, using the wings well. In midfield it was usually messy and confusing as the Rs tried far too many short passes (as Boro closed them down), so the ball was whizzing about a lot but there was precious little conversion into decent play. Up front we saw the difference in style as Boro relied upon muscle and aggression (especially Assombalonga) to close down our defence; whereas Wells and occasional attackers Chair & Eze looked towards skill. Given the number of players absent form the Boro side they linked up their play well, and it was no surprise when a particularly flowing move resulted in our leaky defence watching the ball in the net. Luckily that was declared offside, but within a minute or so there was no such straws to be grasped and it was 0-1! Boro fans got noisier and the Rs fans then progressed through the match as if they were attending a funeral. (Why go along, pay your entrance fee, and then sit there in near silence as your chosen team plays?)
Courtesy of two contrasting goals, from Wells & Hall, we were somehow 2-1 up at half Time; and you would have expected us to go on an win 4-2 or similar. Sadly, this is QPR we are talking about, and they let Boro threaten them all over the pitch. Balls into their goal area were cleared correctly, unlike the mad scambles that were often evident at our end. In attack, with 30 mins to go, Chair and Amos went (neither looked tired of was playing badly); but Warburton did not call on BOS to replace one of them - instead it was Hugill (fair enough) and Scowen (presumably to strengthen the leaky defence). So we were trying to consolidate our slender lead, rather than keep going forward? I have no idea, as Scowen was in line with Hugill as an excellent low crossed ball went past them, and Wells was tracking back to defend at times.... Yet again, Hugill missed a couple of sitters, but he did add another (needed) dimension to forward balls. Then there was their second goal, a real howler of a back pass into danger. If you have nowhere forward or sideways to pass the ball, and you do not know what is happening behind you, then never, ever pass back into the goal area to leave your goalie high & dry! Kick it out!! Assombalonga could not believe his luck.... This was a classic case of trying to maintain possession at all costs, rather than risk your coach's wrath and get rid of it!
Who shined? Well nobody really. Who was poor? Well I have to cite Kane (so easy to get round), Manning for the back-pass, Ball (purely for beating himself up over the odd errors, rather than focusing upon his good play, and stupid fouling), Eze for largely taking the day off, Lumley for still not learning how to kick the ball out and looking so nervy when passing it around, and both Hall & Cameron for a poor job of defending. It gets worrying when I find myself asking 'Where is Barbet?'.... A real shame for Hall as his goal was a lovely header...
Onto the substitutions, you can sort of understand why Warburton went for Hugill & Scowen, but why not take off Eze and bring on BOS instead? Something was needed to change the dynamics, and it was not going to come from better defending, so a winger may have made all the difference. Instead we never used that third sub. Onto Hall as captain: Is he the sort of captain we needed against Boro? I did not see any evidence of him cajoling the side when a step-up in performance was needed or vocally organising the defence. (I am not saying Leistner does either, I am just saying I saw no evidence of it.) If I was Warburton for the day I would give it to Dominic Ball. He will still direct players and shout at them, and I get the impression that he is like Josh Scowen in that he 'punches well above his weight' in terms of tackling.
Anyway, as has already been mentioned above by others, this was a game that we should have won; and the fact we did not does indicate there should be no more talk of battling in the Play-Offs or a Top Ten finish. We will not be relegated but we will not cover ourselves in glory whilst we use barn doors flapping in the wind to stop strikers from scoring against us!
Last Edit: Nov 10, 2019 12:17:39 GMT by kingfisher
Wells will come in for criticism for his terrible back pass, which ultimately cost us, but he is doing the business at the other end.
From what I have seen of the feedback from yourself and others, along with brief highlights, it looks like we were very lucky to be ahead at half time and ultimately lucky to get a point really from a very off the boil performance.
There is no way we will go down, and who knows we may surprise ourselves over the next few matches against tough opponents, but it just feels like the early season positivity has pretty much evaporated. We have to remember we are still 10th right now.
Middlesbrough with 9 first team players missing make shift side! Stupid mistakes defensively these are games you have to win we were bang average today! I think it’s gonna get worse before it gets better
I agree with above comment by another fan,when you got a London Derby next against a decent Fulham team you realise how bad this result was,id be surprised if we lose less than 3-0 to Fulham anyway
we need a big mean defender like gorkss in january but i also think its the way we play that causes the errors we keep making we look nervous at the back and its what is ultimately dropping us down the table too many teams have found us out and seen how easy we are to break down warburton needs to change the way we play end of story as we are simply not good enough in defence to play the ball out to attacking midfielders on a regular basis without making errors all teams need to do is press us and wait for the mistakes,its too easy a heavy defeat to fulham and it will start to look worrying as we could drop like a lead balloon
We have to remember we are still 10th and have equalled our best start to a season at this level since we were relegated 5 years ago. It is no longer an amazing start to the season as it was starting to look like it may be, but given the turnover of playing staff, having a new manager with new ideas and making a profit on some big sales we have to still be happy where we are right now.
I agree totally that this was a poor result ahead of some tough matches and the defence is a major concern but overall we have to be positive about the opening third of the season.
Pretty much everybody predicted we would be treading water in the bottom half, so for there to be a sense of doom and gloom is a bit odd. If we were in this position having won the last 3 games we'd still be 10th but would be looking at things in a different light.
So let's take stock, not already write off the next month of fixtures, hope we improve and find our 'verve' again and see where we are in a months time.
To be imagining Warburton will under pressure and us dropping like a balloon is all hypothetical and a bit OTT given that we are higher than any of us thought we probably would be.
The recent results haven't been great and there is lots we can improve upon but in the bigger picture if we'd been offered 24 points from the opening 16 games and 10th place before a ball was kicked I think we'd have taken in.
Last Edit: Nov 11, 2019 8:39:49 GMT by northwesthoop
Just watched the game and whilst it was a bit of a school boy error from Wells he isn't the first in this team to make a mistake.
I accept that even with Leistner and Barbet in central defence we struggle but my issue is with Warburton who again played Cameron and Wallace as a central defenders. Cameron isn't a central defender and is a liability in that position. He is sloppy in defence and has now picked up another yellow that means he misses Fulham. Wallace isnt a central defender and is still lacking match fitness but did ok.
Apparently Masterson is a central defender who is match fit but doesnt get a game, surely he can't be as poor as Cameron as a Central Defender and if he is worse then why did Warburton sign him?
Good to see Lumley back but his confidence is shot and Warburton has turned a decent goalkeeper into a nervous wreck.
Chair should have been rested several weeks ago and apart from his pass for Wells goal I thought he never troubled Boro.
As things stand I wouldn't have a problem with Hugill playing in central defence because he is a big hefty lump that defends from the front and regularly clears over our opponents cross bar.
Thank goodness that Eze is still playing well albeit in patches.
Just watched the game and whilst it was a bit of a school boy error from Wells he isn't the first in this team to make a mistake.
I accept that even with Leistner and Barbet in central defence we struggle but my issue is with Warburton who again played Cameron and Wallace as a central defenders. Cameron isn't a central defender and is a liability in that position. He is sloppy in defence and has now picked up another yellow that means he misses Fulham. Wallace isnt a central defender and is still lacking match fitness but did ok. Apparently Masterson is a central defender who is match fit but doesnt get a game, surely he can't be as poor as Cameron as a Central Defender and if he is worse then why did Warburton sign him?
Good to see Lumley back but his confidence is shot and Warburton has turned a decent goalkeeper into a nervous wreck. Chair should have been rested several weeks ago and apart from his pass for Wells goal I thought he never troubled Boro. As things stand I wouldn't have a problem with Hugill playing in central defence because he is a big hefty lump that defends from the front and regularly clears over our opponents cross bar. Thank goodness that Eze is still playing well albeit in patches.
All of the above is true, especially in regard to Cameron as a CB. Not having Leistner playing shows the inability to properly clear incoming balls and also to deal well with marauding attackers. Hall & Cameron struggle with both, and I cannot help wondering what Leistner would have been able to achieve a few years ago when he had more pace & stamina.... I would like to come back to something I have mentioned as far back as the McClaren era (remember him?) - the quality of the defence coaching. If it is still the same coach then I would not be surprised but, either way, I am pretty sure they are not doing their job properly as the CBs and WB/FBs are not dealing with the opposition or the ball well. I am puzzled as to why Warburton is not wielding the big stick over the defence or its coach...
This a comment i saw earlier and i totally agree that maybe we should have a more direct approach from now on At least try it out and see if we can keep a clean sheet
It is little surprise, therefore, that QPR invite pressure onto themselves, and the only natural end result is goals conceded.
As a result, Warburton has to focus on simplifying things, at least for the defenders when on the ball. Going back to basics is necessary, and he shouldn’t be afraid to play more directly considering he has Jordan Hugill up-front, who has averaged 3.3 aerial duels won per game.
Alterations are needed if QPR are to get back to winning ways, and an adjustment of putting less focus on retaining possession at all times could prove beneficial.
Just watched the game and whilst it was a bit of a school boy error from Wells he isn't the first in this team to make a mistake.
I accept that even with Leistner and Barbet in central defence we struggle but my issue is with Warburton who again played Cameron and Wallace as a central defenders. Cameron isn't a central defender and is a liability in that position. He is sloppy in defence and has now picked up another yellow that means he misses Fulham. Wallace isnt a central defender and is still lacking match fitness but did ok. Apparently Masterson is a central defender who is match fit but doesnt get a game, surely he can't be as poor as Cameron as a Central Defender and if he is worse then why did Warburton sign him?
Good to see Lumley back but his confidence is shot and Warburton has turned a decent goalkeeper into a nervous wreck. Chair should have been rested several weeks ago and apart from his pass for Wells goal I thought he never troubled Boro. As things stand I wouldn't have a problem with Hugill playing in central defence because he is a big hefty lump that defends from the front and regularly clears over our opponents cross bar. Thank goodness that Eze is still playing well albeit in patches.
All of the above is true, especially in regard to Cameron as a CB. Not having Leistner playing shows the inability to properly clear incoming balls and also to deal well with marauding attackers. Hall & Cameron struggle with both, and I cannot help wondering what Leistner would have been able to achieve a few years ago when he had more pace & stamina.... I would like to come back to something I have mentioned as far back as the McClaren era (remember him?) - the quality of the defence coaching. If it is still the same coach then I would not be surprised but, either way, I am pretty sure they are not doing their job properly as the CBs and WB/FBs are not dealing with the opposition or the ball well. I am puzzled as to why Warburton is not wielding the big stick over the defence or its coach...
In respect of the defence I have thought exactly the same and Im convinced that Warburton still has no idea what his best defensive set up really is.
If Wallace was fit at the start of the season then I'm not sure whether Manning would be in the team. The fact that Manning has been excellent in supporting the front men has left Warburton with a bit of a problem because he doesn't know whether to stick or twist in keeping Manning as our left back.
The other major challenge that Warburton has to solve is who are his main central defenders. Pre season I had hoped that Barbet was going to be the missing link that we had been missing and that he would forge a partnership with Leistner. Whilst I didn't expect much from the majority of Warburtons signings I did think that Barbet was going to make us a lot more secure down the middle. Unfortunately Barbet has been the biggest disappointment of any Warburton signing and whether it's a case of him trying to cover for Manning or just settling into a team that regurly changes it's goalkeeper and fellow defenders I don't know but on what he has shown so far I dont think he is any better than Joel Lynch.
With the current batch of injuries Warburton is restricted by what he can and cant do but I really hope that he can now see that Cameron is not a central defender. If Warburton wants to persist with Manning as our left back then my preference Is for a 5 man defence:
If Warburton only wants to play a 4 man defence and also include Hugill upfront then I don't see how Manning can be included as a defender because we become too lightweight. If Manning does play then it has to be In midfield In something like this:
What I find really strange with Warburton is some of his tactical changes and I think that is the same with the team. He seems to make changes for changes sake and they don't suit the way we play. Using Saturday as an example and not including the fact he played Cameron as a Central Defender but what was the point of playing Chair as a front man alongside Wells. Chair is in need of a rest and is an attacking midfielder ain't no front man. If he wanted to play someone up front alongside Wells then surely Hugill would have been a better option.