Post by northwesthoop on Jun 16, 2018 12:36:54 GMT
What a farce. Not a fan at all.
Penalty decision the first big use in the World Cup to give France a penalty.
I thought it had to be used for "clear and obvious errors" which the penalty decision wasn't?
The game carried on for nearly a minute and only when the ball went out for a throw did they go back and review it. What happens if Australia had gone down the other end and scored before the review?
It doesn't get rid of debate, it still isn't certain it should have been a penalty.
I dont like VAR because it clearly doesnt work. The rule is that VAR should only be used when there is a clear and obvious mistake. The decision to award France a penalty was correct but it wasnt clear and obvious and therefore VAR shouldn't have been used.
Post by northwesthoop on Jun 18, 2018 13:37:52 GMT
It got the decision correct but play was down the other end before they stopped. South Korea were about to shoot when the ref blew for a review. That is my issue.
They should, as I said above, just give every possible penalty and review. They end up getting reviewed anyway, so just review straught away and that stops play carrying on for no reason.
Last Edit: Jun 18, 2018 13:40:10 GMT by northwesthoop
It got the decision correct but play was down the other end before they stopped. South Korea were about to shoot when the ref blew for a review. That is my issue.
They should, as I said above, just give every possible penalty and review. They end up getting reviewed anyway, so just review straught away and that stops play carrying on for no reason.
Post by northwesthoop on Jun 18, 2018 13:47:10 GMT
You don't have Gianni Infantino as a contact do you surrey chad?
I've not seen any pundits propose this. It is only the same concept of how they've been told not to give tight offsides and let them get reviewed.
We've had 3 referees now wave adamantly that there is no penalty only for it to be given 2 minutes later. Take the doubt away, tell them to give a penalty when the team appeals and leave it to VAR.
Anything that reduces the percentage of incorrect decisions is fine by me. So if refs get 15% of everything wrong and VAR reduces this to 5% surely that can only be beneficial to the game as a whole. "Reduce", because nothing will ever totally get rid of mistakes - hence the nonsense of Harry Kane being rugby tackled and no penalty. The Harry Kane error was merely an example of more human error - i.e. human error in terms of not dealing correctly with the evidence of VAR; in the same way that referees misinterpret what they see before/without VAR.
VAR is normality is many other sports, yet human error in interpreting VAR exists there - hence one definite and one possible VAR mistake against New England in the Superbowl against Philadelphia, possibly costing them the win; yet NFL fans are not turning against it. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?
The single biggest criticism of VAR before its proper introduction was that it would disrupt the flow of the game. It hasn't at all. Very little time has been taken in matches to deal with VAR issues; and this situation will only improve as referees become more experienced and confident in its use.
VAR also has the potential to greatly reduce cheating - diving, shirt pulling, etc. If VAR was in use 32 years ago there is no Hand of God issue.
Like goal-line technology, in 2 years' time (with 2 years' refinement and experience) we'll be wondering how we managed without it.
Anything that reduces the percentage of incorrect decisions is fine by me. So if refs get 15% of everything wrong and VAR reduces this to 5% surely that can only be beneficial to the game as a whole. "Reduce", because nothing will ever totally get rid of mistakes - hence the nonsense of Harry Kane being rugby tackled and no penalty. The Harry Kane error was merely an example of more human error - i.e. human error in terms of not dealing correctly with the evidence of VAR; in the same way that referees misinterpret what they see before/without VAR.
VAR is normality is many other sports, yet human error in interpreting VAR exists there - hence one definite and one possible VAR mistake against New England in the Superbowl against Philadelphia, possibly costing them the win; yet NFL fans are not turning against it. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?
The single biggest criticism of VAR before its proper introduction was that it would disrupt the flow of the game. It hasn't at all. Very little time has been taken in matches to deal with VAR issues; and this situation will only improve as referees become more experienced and confident in its use.
VAR also has the potential to greatly reduce cheating - diving, shirt pulling, etc. If VAR was in use 32 years ago there is no Hand of God issue.
Like goal-line technology, in 2 years' time (with 2 years' refinement and experience) we'll be wondering how we managed without it.
You make some valid points but I still feel it is not getting rid of debate. I thought it was brought in to settle debate or there could be no debate as the decisions should be correct... Some decisions haven't been correct and some have been missed. All the pundits have been talking about is VAR - as much as they used to talk about the odd wrong decision.
You are right it has the potential to reduce cheating etc but they aren't using it for things like diving which I find odd. Also in the Uruguay match today a goal kick was given when it should have been a corner. We had replays before the goal kick was even taken. Why can't VAR be used for that, somebody shouts in the refs ear and it is a corner instead? That isn't even complicated.
I also feel it does disrupt the flow when they say 'no penalty', play carries on for up to a minute, then they blow to check the video. This happened in the Australia and South Korea matches.
I'm firmly in the "we can do without it" camp.
Last Edit: Jun 20, 2018 19:47:59 GMT by northwesthoop
NWH, all reasoned points matey, but I'm sticking with VAR :-)
You make some valid points but I still feel it is not getting rid of debate. I thought it was brought in to settle debate or there could be no debate as the decisions should be correct... Some decisions haven't been correct and some have been missed.
As already mentioned... "nothing will ever totally get rid of mistakes - hence the nonsense of Harry Kane being rugby tackled and no penalty. The Harry Kane error was merely an example of more human error - i.e. human error in terms of not dealing correctly with the evidence of VAR; in the same way that referees misinterpret what they see before/without VAR."
All the pundits have been talking about is VAR - as much as they used to talk about the odd wrong decision.
This was always ever going to be the way. VAR is new. What else would they talk about? It would be strange if they didn't. Something else will be flavour-of-the-month at the next World Cup.
I also feel it does disrupt the flow when they say 'no penalty', play carries on for up to a minute, then they blow to check the video. This happened in the Australia and South Korea matches.
Surely justice should prevail, even if it means the odd interruption. Two matches is acceptable, with 20 matches played so far. And the more VAR is used the more these 'wrinkles' will be ironed out. I would happily have play called back, with Germany on the attack, to correctly award Frank Lampard the goal that wasn't in 2010. Sure, this is a goal-line technology issue, but that is the point - goal-line technology caused controversy at first; now it's accepted to minimise error and augment fairness.
Post by northwesthoop on Jun 20, 2018 21:15:04 GMT
Goal line technology is black and white though, it was far easier to implement. There can be no debate. Nobody ever talks about tight goal line decisions because it is not up for debate. A goal is a goal.
VAR is not really comparable as it will always still miss things or not be used when it should be.
Unless it can categorically clear up issues going forward - and clear them up quicker than it does currently - I'll prefer matches without it.
I think its a good thing and the implementation has been okay. See how many incorrect decisions there would of been at the world cup without it, missing penalties, giving goals when they shouldnt, not giving goal when they should.
The only questionable thing about it in the iran game for me was i didnt think it was a pen for iran or portugal but im not a ref and it is down the the refs discretion. I think that is why they have the on field ref review as a penalty for me might not be the same for the next guy. Sure it would be good if everyone knew what a foul is or isnt but unfortunately its not something that can ever be black and white. The ref looked at the penalty incidents on the monitor in the iran game and decided they where fouls for one reason or another.
Im not actually sure where this "clear and obvious" thing came from but surly if a ref doesnt think something is a pen and the guys in VAR look at it and think it is then there has been a obvious error. As far as i know they have var to correct game changing decisions like goals, pens and red cards.
I think the biggest issue about VAR is that it has been rushed into service for this World Cup without a decent trial - both of the referees and the process. Valid points have been raised about when potential mistakes should be raised and who by. Should the VAR assistant referees draw the match referee's attention to a an error after they have quickly checked themselves; and then the referee gets to review it before making a decision and what happens to play meanwhile? In the England v Tunisa match we saw VAR at its worst - not being used to highlight blatant fouls in the penalty area; and in other matches it has corrected match officials' mistakes. Tricky stuff though!